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Author Topic: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.  (Read 13329 times)

Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2010, 03:43:53 PM »
Is it the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"/"whatever works" mentality that keeps people perfectly satisfied with stock Duncan/YYJ bearings? Or do you personally feel, in all honesty, that upgrade bearings aren't worth the money spent/performance ratio?

You got it, I find 0% gain in performance from aftermarket bearings.   so ya' the money spent to performance ratio is way out of whack.   Don't get me wrong I don't think a yoyo will spin just as long with a stock bearing vs a after market one, but(and this is a big but) you don't even 10% of the potential max spin time of each throw.  I don't think your bind after grind thing holds any weight, since a more responsive yoyo should perform a bind better at lower speeds then the opposite.  Believe me this is coming form a guy who went out a bought a ceramic KK for my clessiah(back in 05'), that thing cost almost the same as the yoyo.  I even kind of' fooled my self into believing it played better, but it didn't.  The smoothness thing is cool, but in that case it for me really is about quieting down the yoyo more then anything else, and in that case I would use an ezo bearing since they are far and beyond better for that then anything else on the market.  All in all like I said in the post above if you get any roll up at all then it is not a "unresponsive" bearing.   Maybe semi-unresponsive but comparing the two is not exactly a proper evaluation.

fallenangemon0

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2010, 04:40:10 PM »
Ditto. It doesn't make sense why it's easier to explain in person, but this makes for nice discussion.

I'm experienced at yoyoing. I never use shielded bearings (unless Centertracs ACTUALLY play better without them. Didn't know this.), so I'm definitely not doing "anything wrong" or making other novice mistakes. When it begins to wrap around the bearing, only the Duncan bearing will occasionally wrap around the axle/snag while my ceramic never does. I don't know if this is specifically because the Duncan bearing doesn't spin as fast/fluidly as the Ceramic, but It definitely does happen, can when it DOES happen, that tiny smidgen of string that begins to wrap around the bearing might touch the silicone and that's when a tug-return or snag will happen.

I mean if the bearing is spinning faster with less friction (aka smoother), shouldn't it grind for longer? That DOES make sense, right?  :idiot2:

and please don't mention flick-spins  ;D

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Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2010, 05:30:20 PM »
Ya' I dunno, I have never had that problem with stock bearings in any yoyo.  If they where unresponsive, that is.   I have had that problem with the first run of the yoyofactory special bearings.  I would pull those and throw them away when I got one.  One drop of the yoyo, and the bearing would act just like that.  Of course all of them where size "C".

I played a MG with a ceramic bearing in it for a few  years strait, it was the only yoyo I used.   It was nice, and smooth, very quiet.  Which I found nice, however I don't think it gave me any advantage over anything else.  I also used a FHZ from around 05' to about 08'  as the main yoyo I used.  same thing with this yoyo, the  bearing was dead unresponsive, never had it pull string up into the gap for any reason other then maybe when some junk would get in the bearing.  Which to fix I would just drop a drop of thick lube in the bearing play it for one day responsive and then it was back to the same old perfectly unresponsive yoyo I came to enjoy and love.  
What I am saying is the amount the bearing slows down the yoyo is very little, even less on most moddern yoyos, although I am sure through a very complicated math equation we could pound out how much more spin time on a grind, a super over the top clean bearing gives you over, a just clean bearing.  Like I had said before I am sure the yoyo could max out spin longer, but it will be a very small amount more, even on a 15 min. sleeper.  So on your 3-8 second grind I think any gain you get is purely in your head.   Which is fine I am an advocate for, "Do what makes yoyoing more fun for you."   don't let me discourage you, I was in your same shoes 5+ years ago.  from 98 to 2005 I figured bearings did a lot to help my spin time.  If you have not try an ezo bearing they are nice.  I have a feeling you will like them.  I am not very articulate when righting, that is why I said I would be able to explain my self in person better.  
Oh, and it sounds like your stock bearing has an issue.  Have you ever heard of shields mod?  I think it may need a run though doing that cleaning method.   
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 05:34:04 PM by Schnayke »

eNons3nse

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2010, 05:37:58 PM »
I mean if the bearing is spinning faster with less friction (aka smoother), shouldn't it grind for longer? That DOES make sense, right?  :idiot2:

That doesn't make any sense to me.  The grind is friction between the surface of the yo-yo and your skin.  How does the bearing effect that at all?  You are saying that any little bit of vibration that the bearing produces would transfer it's self to the contact where the grind is happening and make the grind shorter?  I doubt there is any effect there at all and if there is it's extremely marginal.  

I also don't see how snags when binding would happen more with a duncan bearing than an after market bearing.  Like I said before, this is more due to poor yo-yo design, mismatched response system, or sloppy playing.

Also, I really don't think that it's difficult to find a good set-up for a smaller bearing yo-yo.  You just may not be able to use the same set-up as a large bearing yo-yo.  The problem is, most people are used to playing large bearing yo-yos so they may not realize this.  You could technically say that any deviation from the norm is more difficult than sticking with the norm.  I'm actually a big believer in just asking other people what they use and trying that rather than experimenting all over the place by myself.  Let someone else do the work for you.

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fallenangemon0

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2010, 05:57:47 PM »
Me using a FHZ for several years was only to explain my experience with different bearings (even though I didn't really mention that anywhere...). I've tried them all. My Gold EZO bearings both locked up and I read you can't deshield them/clean them so they're here somewhere...


"That doesn't make any sense to me.  The grind is friction between the surface of the yo-yo and your skin.  How does the bearing effect that at all?  You are saying that any little bit of vibration that the bearing produces would transfer it's self to the contact where the grind is happening and make the grind shorter?  I doubt there is any effect there at all and if there is it's extremely marginal."

The RPMS a yoyo is spinning at after a 3 second grind with a stock cleaned duncan bearing would not be the same as if you were using a ceramic and throw down with the same amount of force because the two produce different resistances/spin times when thrown at the same strength. I too think the difference would be minute, but it'd still be a difference and having enough RPMS (aka "balls") helps when you need your bind to be as tight as possible.

So if your yoyo can spin faster with a Ceramic, wouldn't it be better at grinds because you'd be able to grind for a set period of time and still have enough "balls" to make a snappy bind?

Also, Ceramic bearings appear to spin longer when they are not bearing a load. But it's not clear whether they maintain that advantage when they DO?

Also, one more reference to "poor playing" is going to result in a video battle XD

edit: I don't think I said anything about "snags while binding". That'd just be an improper bind XD
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 06:12:41 PM by fallenangemon0 »
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Bobbyboy

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2010, 06:30:49 PM »
i don't get what you mean by having enough balls...

 ;D
Looking for an SFX!

"put some more balls into it".

fallenangemon0

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2010, 06:34:51 PM »
i don't get what you mean by having enough balls...

 ;D

Balls- A measurement consisting of your spinning yoyo's revolutions per minute after a throw.

edit: this definition is derived from a colloquialism such as "give it more balls" or "put some more balls into it".
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 06:36:39 PM by fallenangemon0 »
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Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2010, 06:36:04 PM »
No not the gold ezo bearings those suck huge nuts.   I had one of those from both batchs, both lasted me about 3 days. 
Get one made for dental equipment.  ;) 
The ceramic bearing will not allow your yoyo to spin with more RPMs, it couldl help it hold that speed while the load of the  yoyo weight, is rotating on the bearing. Very little, but it can help assuming it is in proper working order.
I don't think it would flesh out like that because the load of the yoyo is on your hand at that point, so the bearing is slowing down the yoyo even less.  near 100% less.   Which brings me back to, I think it is more in your head then anything.   Which is not a bad thing, being confidant in your equipment is bound to make you a better yoyoer.  You can never discount the mental aspect of anything.  I think ceramics have less matnance issues, for sure.
I was about to film a new yoyo vid, more to promote yoyofactory yoyos for the use of 5A then anything but I am down for a battle, I will probably lose but it should be fun, none the less.  Never battled before.  :)

Bobbyboy

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2010, 06:46:28 PM »
...But according to fallenangemon0, normal bearings don't have the balls to battle with. :-P

"give it more balls" or "put some more balls into it".
TWSS

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fallenangemon0

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2010, 07:42:12 PM »
No not the gold ezo bearings those suck huge nuts.   I had one of those from both batchs, both lasted me about 3 days.  
Get one made for dental equipment.  ;)  
The ceramic bearing will not allow your yoyo to spin with more RPMs, it couldl help it hold that speed while the load of the  yoyo weight, is rotating on the bearing. Very little, but it can help assuming it is in proper working order.
I don't think it would flesh out like that because the load of the yoyo is on your hand at that point, so the bearing is slowing down the yoyo even less.  near 100% less.   Which brings me back to, I think it is more in your head then anything.   Which is not a bad thing, being confidant in your equipment is bound to make you a better yoyoer.  You can never discount the mental aspect of anything.  I think ceramics have less matnance issues, for sure.
I was about to film a new yoyo vid, more to promote yoyofactory yoyos for the use of 5A then anything but I am down for a battle, I will probably lose but it should be fun, none the less.  Never battled before.  :)

Must find this bearing and try it.
Actually ceramic silicon nitride is what the balls in a ceramic bearing are made of. It produces less friction against the bearing races compared to balls of steel. I don't under stand how a bearing that has less friction to slow it down internally, easier to maintain and play without lube/through several cleanings for several years is equal to the quality or performance of a cleaned Duncan bearing.

Edit: Bobby, 10 Ball. That is all.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 07:44:45 PM by fallenangemon0 »
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Marchingyoyot4

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2010, 08:06:22 PM »
For me it depends on the yoyo, I looooove my wedgie and my beysick, but I hated my sb hectic and didn't care for the sb 888 (compaired to the lb)
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Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2010, 08:47:16 PM »
No not the gold ezo bearings those suck huge nuts.   I had one of those from both batchs, both lasted me about 3 days.  
Get one made for dental equipment.  ;)  
The ceramic bearing will not allow your yoyo to spin with more RPMs, it couldl help it hold that speed while the load of the  yoyo weight, is rotating on the bearing. Very little, but it can help assuming it is in proper working order.
I don't think it would flesh out like that because the load of the yoyo is on your hand at that point, so the bearing is slowing down the yoyo even less.  near 100% less.   Which brings me back to, I think it is more in your head then anything.   Which is not a bad thing, being confidant in your equipment is bound to make you a better yoyoer.  You can never discount the mental aspect of anything.  I think ceramics have less matnance issues, for sure.
I was about to film a new yoyo vid, more to promote yoyofactory yoyos for the use of 5A then anything but I am down for a battle, I will probably lose but it should be fun, none the less.  Never battled before.  :)

Must find this bearing and try it.
Actually ceramic silicon nitride is what the balls in a ceramic bearing are made of. It produces less friction against the bearing races compared to balls of steel. I don't under stand how a bearing that has less friction to slow it down internally, easier to maintain and play without lube/through several cleanings for several years is equal to the quality or performance of a cleaned Duncan bearing.

Edit: Bobby, 10 Ball. That is all.
ya' that is what I was saying about the ceramics.   Although I don't clean my bearings, I just lube, then play it out.  . I told you I don't get my point across well on the internet.   Sorry.  ;)  What I am saying is the amount and fact that the bearing is slowing down the yoyo is not at of any significances at that level.  Once you get a cleaned bearing that works right it is as good as you can need(less you are trying to win long sleeper contests.), factors like string, response, and your hand(in the grinding scenario.), wind, and swinging force, others I am sure I am missing, are what are slowing down your yoyo, the amount the bearing is slowing the yoyo down at that point, is so nil in comparison.  I mean the bearing alone can stop a yoyo in what 15 min.   your hand 10 seconds pretty much max.  Just swinging the yoyo around 1 min or 2.  see what I am saying.  your response? fast, what 30 seconds before it would stop the yoyo. Just the face of a smooth yoyo would be like, 30 seconds as well.  Well i don't know what else to say, ceramic bearings are cool because they are quieter, take less lubing for me, but that takes me about 10 seconds, once every two months or so with normal bearings.  so with silicone I go more like 3 months, still no help there.  see where I am at on this.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 09:59:37 AM by Schnayke »

eNons3nse

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2010, 04:31:15 AM »
No not the gold ezo bearings those suck huge nuts.   I had one of those from both batchs, both lasted me about 3 days.  
Get one made for dental equipment.  ;)  
The ceramic bearing will not allow your yoyo to spin with more RPMs, it couldl help it hold that speed while the load of the  yoyo weight, is rotating on the bearing. Very little, but it can help assuming it is in proper working order.
I don't think it would flesh out like that because the load of the yoyo is on your hand at that point, so the bearing is slowing down the yoyo even less.  near 100% less.   Which brings me back to, I think it is more in your head then anything.   Which is not a bad thing, being confidant in your equipment is bound to make you a better yoyoer.  You can never discount the mental aspect of anything.  I think ceramics have less matnance issues, for sure.
I was about to film a new yoyo vid, more to promote yoyofactory yoyos for the use of 5A then anything but I am down for a battle, I will probably lose but it should be fun, none the less.  Never battled before.  :)

Must find this bearing and try it.


The D bearings that used to come in SPYYs were the kind of EZOs he's talking about.  They were really nice and broke in super well.

This thread has become a black hole with our 3 way conversation about misunderstanding and clarifying each other.  Lets just get back to talking about how awesome A & D bearings are.
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fallenangemon0

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2010, 09:28:31 AM »
I had one in my beta pistolero :(

I wish I loved that yoyo.
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YoYoGuy66

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2010, 09:48:11 AM »
Small Bearings are absolutely 110% better than C bearings by far.

Fojo

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2010, 11:04:33 AM »
I mean if the bearing is spinning faster with less friction (aka smoother), shouldn't it grind for longer? That DOES make sense, right?  :idiot2:

That doesn't make any sense to me.  The grind is friction between the surface of the yo-yo and your skin.  How does the bearing effect that at all?  You are saying that any little bit of vibration that the bearing produces would transfer it's self to the contact where the grind is happening and make the grind shorter?  I doubt there is any effect there at all and if there is it's extremely marginal.  
Actually, that small amount of vibe has a huge effect on how long a yoyo will grind for DEPENDING on the grind you're doing. It will have the marginal effect you're talking about if you're doing a nail grind, but if you do a sustained grind on the length of your finger it will have a much larger effect. Basically the vibe will effect your grind based on how much of the yoyo is touching your finger or vice versa. In terms of physics, the extra space where it's touching you means that more of the energy of the yoyo will be lost to contact, and the more vibey (ie not smooth against your finger) the yoyo is the faster it will lose it's spin.

Now, you have to be grinding for quite a while for his to matter at all...
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Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2010, 12:17:20 PM »
I mean if the bearing is spinning faster with less friction (aka smoother), shouldn't it grind for longer? That DOES make sense, right?  :idiot2:

That doesn't make any sense to me.  The grind is friction between the surface of the yo-yo and your skin.  How does the bearing effect that at all?  You are saying that any little bit of vibration that the bearing produces would transfer it's self to the contact where the grind is happening and make the grind shorter?  I doubt there is any effect there at all and if there is it's extremely marginal.  
Actually, that small amount of vibe has a huge effect on how long a yoyo will grind for DEPENDING on the grind you're doing. It will have the marginal effect you're talking about if you're doing a nail grind, but if you do a sustained grind on the length of your finger it will have a much larger effect. Basically the vibe will effect your grind based on how much of the yoyo is touching your finger or vice versa. In terms of physics, the extra space where it's touching you means that more of the energy of the yoyo will be lost to contact, and the more vibey (ie not smooth against your finger) the yoyo is the faster it will lose it's spin.

Now, you have to be grinding for quite a while for his to matter at all...
Except for the fact that when the load of the yoyo is not resting on the bearing, the bearings vibe would not translate though the yoyo at all, so once you pop it up for a grind the vibe that a bearing could cause is gone. 

Fojo

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2010, 07:51:41 PM »
I'm sorry, I'm not that good at yoyoing, but how is bearing vibe different than other vibe?
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Schnayke

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2010, 08:19:02 PM »
oh well some bearings translate some vibration though the yoyo.  because they are less smooth rolling I guess.  for me it is when there is less lube in the bearing.   regular vibe would be from some sort of imperfection in the yoyo causing the halfs to vibe.  or in other words just the whole yoyo is causing vibration.

Tetrahedron

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Re: Size 'A' bearings are DEAD.
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2010, 08:34:06 PM »
Size D's are superior to C's in every way. Just the way they are made are better in specifics of spinning and in usage of a yoyo. Just basic physics.

As for size A's, they're not dead. Stacked yoyo's are using them and probably always will.